Q: What other kinds of health problems do you encounter when treating Chicanos, and to what degree are these health problems a function of poverty that Chicano's find themselves in?

A: Well, you know, the sad thing about poverty is that it causes you to feel inferior to somebody, which causes an internal depression. And it's not poverty, itself, that's the problem. It’s how we succumb to poverty. It's not just having. Because sometimes having more money causes more problems, more stresses. We have [a] tremendous amount of affluent people that are incredibly unhealthy, also. So [money’s] not the solution. If we can create people who have a belief that they are as important, or that they are as vital to the whole world as anybody else, and a sense of self-respect, if they respect themselves then they're [going to] worry about what they eat, they're [going to] worry about how they exercise, they’re [going to] worry about stimulating their minds--they’re going to take care of themselves. They're not going to hurt other people. So our problem with poverty is the lack of self-respect that it seems to be a product of poverty. We need to turn that around. The actual money part of it--you know, we believe that as long as you have shelter, food, and somebody is not trying to kill you, if we can take care of those things, that we could be very healthy people. Some people aren't satisfied with that. And they try to get things that they don't need. So just being affluent is not something we strive for at all.

Q: So you can be happy and still be materially poor, but you can be spiritually rich.

A: Yes. We think that being spiritually rich, physically rich--many of our brothers don’t have limbs, or don’t have their health, and that is one of the worst things that can happen to you. But they even endure their challenge. Those of us that are fortunate to have those gifts--they’re much more important gifts than any extra money somebody could give us, or any extra things. Yet, we don’t cherish them.

Q: In the documentary, we talk about Aztlán being a geographic place, but in what ways is the concept of Aztlán broader than merely a place on a map?

A: Aztlán gave us a self-awareness that we were as good or equal to those societies which we always kind of tried to live up to.
You know, when I was growing up, I was looking at television all the time, and it never reflected me. It never gave me worth. It never said "I was just like them." Because I wasn't blond, I wasn't tall, I wasn't blue-eyed, I didn’t live in the kind of neighborhoods that were on T.V. So the message was always constant, that I could never be as good as the images that were being portrayed. And then one day, somebody said there’s this place that we came from, and it's Aztlán. And it was the place where our ancestors came from. And they defined who we are. And that changed my whole life. It basically said "Oh, I do have purpose. I do have a place I come from. And these people were brilliant. And there's no reason that anyone should ever say to me again that they’re smarter than me because of their background." It gave me roots, you could say. It was something that nobody had ever talked to us about.
So I think that’s where the concept of Aztlán [moves beyond geography]: it gives us roots, it gives us purpose, and it lets us explore who we really are. Because once we’ve done that for each other, then, really, people can’t oppress us. I really don’t care if you’re racist towards me because I know who I am. But without those roots, yeah, I’m on a weak foundation, then. And I would say that I was on a weak foundation till I discovered that concept, which was after high school, the first years of college.

Q: Is Aztlán necessarily an exclusionary concept, in terms of other races?

A: No. I think, once you grasp the idea that we come from the same traditions, and if you really believe [in] Aztlán, then you start believing that we have similar traditions to Mother Africa, to what African people have. And we have other traditions like what people have in Asia. You start finding those commonalities. Once you understand your roots, you start finding out that all the roots really are the same. And that really gives you a sense of inclusion, not exclusion. And then that really forces the issue that we are not better than everybody. We’re just like everybody else. Same struggles. Same problems. And we can overcome [them] as any group can overcome [them]. Not better, but not worse, either.

Q: Going back to the running. Could you explain further how you see running as a sacred act?

A: The first hook that we have with our kids and the people I coach--I coach about 70 boys right now--we, basically, hook [them] on the competition. Remember that they're victims of the whole process that winning is the most important thing. And they like to win. They've been taught. They watch sports on T.V. So we run in competitions, and they learn to run to win. But slowly we start evolving [towards] the real value of it, [which] is just the ability to be able to run, and to enjoy the actual running. Not how fast you did it, not if you beat somebody, but just that you did it, the sheer joy of it. And the way it's incorporated is, every once in a while, maybe once or twice a week, these runs are created that are called "fun trail runs." What they are is, basically, running for the sheer pleasure of running. It seems to us much easier to do it when we are on dirt.
Running is more than just beating somebody else, or covering the distance in a certain amount of time. There's actually a pleasure in doing that. But it's more of a self-fulfilling pleasure, not [because] you beat somebody.
In the general running circles they talk about "runner's high." There is this euphoria that takes place. A lot of us think it’s close to meditation and it’s close to prayer. It doesn’t happen every day. We’re almost addicted to running because we're trying to get to that state. Sometimes we get there, sometimes we don't. I’ve been running on a daily basis since I was 16 and I'm 52 now. And I would say that once or twice a week I can do that. It’s a gift we want to give all the children that we coach. It occurs easier, we think, when you're close to Mother Nature, when you're on the trail, uneven surfaces, near trees. It seems to be easier to get to this meditation state. We don't know what it is. We just know that when you get there, it's something that you would like to get back. Once you’re kind of hooked, you’re hooked.

Q: On the logo of your brochures there's a runner. Can you explain what that image represents?

A: Well, if you look at codices, throughout the Aztec world, you find lots of references to gods in movement. It could've been a dance, or it could be running, but there’s always movement. You just don't find very many icons in most native peoples that are stagnant. Usually there’s some motion. Motion is life. As I tell my patients, if you stop moving, you stop living. And the sad part is, it’s almost encouraged. That having a car, having the remote control, not having to leave your house to go shopping--kind of this whole Internet philosophy: you don’t have to leave your house; you could just stay at a monitor and live your life. That violates everything that Man has known since he got off those trees and started standing upright. We’re built to move. There isn’t one part of our body [that] isn’t built to move. And it degenerates when we stop movement.


Q: Can you describe what you experienced when the Aztlán Track Club helped organize the Rarámuris when they ran up to Mesa Verde?

A: We’ve sponsored the Rarámuris on several occasions. I think 1989 was the first time that we sent two of our representatives to Chihuahua, and then we sent them into Copper Canyon to bring back some Rarámuris so that they could run at our event. We had an event, here in East Los Angeles, since 1984. We draw about two-three thousand people at times at that race. But that year we decided we wanted to bring some Rarámuris, to run in our race [to] maybe share some of their philosophies with us.
So we sent two representatives, and that year we did bring back eight Rarámuris [for] that run. Subsequent to that, we had [them] about three-four times at our race, and ever since then, they traveled to this area of the United States to participate in a hundred mile race in September. And they’ll be here this September, also. This year they’ll also be participating in our race. And we help them with fund raising, we provide some receptions for them so that they can get money.
The Rarámuris are having a lot of problems. As civilization has infringed [upon] their lifestyle, their tuberculosis rates, starvation rates, are starting to move up very quickly.